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Episode:
35
Miriama Kamo: The Journey and Joy of Zero Waste, Sustainability, and Te Ao Māori
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This week, we are joined by someone truly multi-talented. Miriama Kamois an award-winning broadcaster, TV presenter, face of Sunday, author,and a hardcore environmentalist.
I was a little intimidated havinganother legitimate, professional journalist on the show, but Miriama is just soincredibly kind, warm, and generous. I think you’ll be fascinated by how herupbringing has shaped her environmental mindset and just how committed she isto sustainability.
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Transcript
Kia ora kaitiaki and welcome to Now That's What I Call Green. I'm your host, Brianne West—an environmentalist and entrepreneur—trying to get you as excited about our planet as I am. I'm all about creating a scientific approach to making the world a better place, without the judgment, and making it fun. And of course, we will be chatting about some of the most amazing creatures we share our planet with.
So, if you are looking to navigate through everything green—or not so green—you have come to the right place. Today, I'm very excited to bring on Miriama Kamo, who of course, you will know as the award-winning broadcaster and TV presenter. She's the face of Sunday, but she's also an author and a pretty hardcore environmentalist.
Today, we're going to talk about the impact of her upbringing on her zero-waste life philosophy and how she handles that in quite a high-profile life.
Welcome, Miriama! Thank you so much for joining me. It is a little bit stressful having an actual proper journalist on the call, I'll be honest. But thank you for joining me anyway.
So, everybody knows who you are, obviously, but context is good. I know you grew up in Ōtutahi Christchurch and then moved pretty quickly into journalism. What was your career trajectory like? Did you always want to be a journalist?
So, I wanted to be a writer. I wanted to do all sorts of things when I was growing up—I wanted to be an artist and a teacher. Fashion designer was another one. But all the way through, the sort of abiding passion was reading and writing.
I thought I would become a writer of books, plays, movies, and things like that. It wasn’t until I was in university, trying to think about the next step, that my sister—who was already at broadcasting school doing radio—said, "You know, if you want to do writing, you might enjoy journalism. Why don’t you come here and do the journalism course?"
And I was like, "Oh, okay." So, I did that. Did a year of it. Then, a few of us got a job straight out of school at the end of that year on a new kid’s show called Get Real.
The science one?
Yeah! Science and discovery. There used to be a show called Beyond 2000—people of my age… you don’t know it, do you?
I loved Beyond 2000! I don’t think anything they predicted came true. I remember my dad and I would sit every… I don’t even know what morning it aired or on what channel, I just remember how awesome it was. So, was Get Real like that?
Yeah, yeah! It was meant to be a New Zealand version of Beyond 2000—discovery, entertainment, but education too. It had lots of strands, like a planet strand, and there was the exciting sort of ‘going out and doing fun stuff’ like getting on a four-wheel bike. So many different elements.
There were about seven different strands, I think. It was awesome. Such a great baptism into TV.
Yeah, I bet it was. It would be such a cool thing to bring science and that kind of experience to a younger audience. I’m a little bit scared of kids—I don’t have any of my own. But my contribution is that every child I know gets science-related presents every month or so. So, I’m quietly manipulating them into being scientists of some description.
Well, we need that! That’s good.
We do, we do! Now, we’ve talked a little before, because you and I have met a few times, and we've touched on your journey into te reo Māori and your immersion learning. Before we dive into other topics, I think it’d be interesting to hear how you’ve been finding it.
Sure. So, I’m a full-time student at the moment of Te Reo Māori, in an immersion setting at Te Wānanga o Takiura in Auckland. It’s every day, Monday to Friday, 9 AM to 3 PM, just like a regular school kid. I go to school—and it’s just fantastic.
But I grew up in Te Ao Māori, in the Māori world, in Christchurch. Everything about me, everything about my whānau was Māori. That was our complete and utter worldview. I grew up very comfortable in my identity. The only thing that was painful for me was that I couldn’t kōrero Māori.
I didn’t really feel the pain of that until I left high school. I was in a bubble the whole time—around people with about the same fluency as me, some better, some worse. We were all immersed in kapahaka, going to our marae. It didn’t feel like a big gap until I left that safe place and went to university. Suddenly, I was like, Oh gosh, I really would love to learn the reo.
For my entire life, it seems, I’ve been a student of te reo and never quite nailed it. A lot of that comes down to what we now recognise as language trauma. When you have an expectation, a sense of burden that you should have this thing that you don’t, it can really block you.
I fully realised what that meant when I went to Germany about 15 years ago. Within the first week, I had a few hundred words and could have basic conversations. And I thought, Why is this so easy? In one week, I have almost as much German as I do te reo Māori.
After doing more research, I discovered: Okay, this is language trauma. I’m not getting it because there’s too much weight on it.
But this year, doing it in an immersion setting has been revolutionary.
I’ve been trying to learn, and I know more than I’ll ever say because I’m terrified of getting it wrong. And obviously, I’m not saying it’s remotely equitable, but language is so much more complicated than just learning how to speak. There’s so much more to it.
Which brings me to the bigger piece I wanted to talk about—te ao Māori.
It’s the way of looking at the world, the Māori worldview that you grew up in. I’ve read a few books about it, but what is it to you?
Such a good question. It’s my complete identity.
Although I have a Pākehā mum, and I’m very proud to be Pākehā, she raised her five children with a Māori worldview. For her, Māoridom was very important. My nana, my dad’s mum, was extremely important to my mother—she helped shape her, and my mother even says saved her.
They had a kind of inversion of the stereotype. My Māori whānau was tight and secure, whereas my mother’s upbringing wasn’t as stable. For her, Te Ao Māori was a lifesaver.
She naturally had a Te Tiriti worldview. So, for her, it was natural to raise her children in te ao Māori.
Growing up, I don’t know if I would have been able to explain what te ao Māori meant because it just was who I am and what we did.
We went to the marae, we had hāngi, we went to tangi, we went to hui. We naturally understood what partnership should be. We could recognise racism because it happened to us a lot. We were taught to fight and advocate for things Māori—for equity, for fairness. My parents were very much social justice warriors.
Te Ao Māori is a really interesting concept because within it, we are a people, but we’re not the same person. There is as much diversity of views within Māori culture as there is in any other. So, the expression of your Māoritanga—your Māoriness—is different for every single person.
That said, there are some common values we tend to share. Things like having a collective view rather than an individualistic one. The importance of whakapapa, of reanga—nurturing generations, looking forward to the future, not just thinking about ourselves. Looking back to our tūpuna and the stories that unite us. Observing tikanga and kawa while respecting that they are different for every iwi, hapū, and whānau.
Another way to explain te ao Māori is through language. The word Māori just means "normal" or "natural." We even use it that way today—he wai Māori means fresh water, normal water. But when Europeans arrived, Māori people were seen as the indigenous people, and the word took on a different meaning.
What’s really important in Māoridom is hapū. That’s the structure the Treaty refers to—hapū rather than iwi. Hapū and whānau are the backbone. Iwi are powerful because they are made up of hapū working together, but hapū is the heart of it all.
It’s a hard thing to explain, but it just feels… right, doesn’t it? It’s the way we should be about so many things. A lot of us have such individualistic ways of looking at things, yet so many cultures around the world don’t.
Yeah, I get what you mean. It sounds healthy, it sounds normal and natural—and Māori!
But a lot of non-Māori organisations also work in that way. I grew up in a Christian family movement called CFM (Christian Family Movement), and it encouraged families to support one another and work collectively.
In our CFM movement, there were four families. We were the only Māori whānau, but we all operated with a collective worldview. We built each other’s houses, looked after each other’s kids—those families are like my cousins.
That kind of collectivism, which is a core Māori value, exists outside te ao Māori too. And when it’s done right, when it’s healthy, it can be really life-giving.
A word I use a lot on this pod is kaitiaki, right? That would be correct to say guardian?
Yeah.
I use it in the sense that we are here to be guardians of the world and everything that lives on it. Which, let’s be honest, we are doing a truly appalling job of. But I like to think we are moving in the right direction.
We have to believe that. We have to hope, otherwise there’s no point.
Exactly. You just need to look at the things that are moving in the right direction to feel a little bit of hope.
Is te ao Māori what shaped your perspective on sustainability? Because you take a broader approach than a lot of people in your position. That’s one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you—you try to weave sustainability into every aspect of your life.
I hadn’t thought about it being broader. In what sense?
A lot of people who talk about sustainability focus on one thing. And I get why—it’s really difficult to tackle it all. But you seem to address it across multiple facets.
You talk about sustainable fashion, zero waste, the things you use in your home. I’ve done my research on you before this interview, and you’ve spoken about how you try to apply the idea of having less impact in a holistic way.
People always ask me why I’m an environmentalist, and I never know how to answer. I just am. Is it the same for you? You just are?
It’s taken me a while to accept the term environmentalist for myself. Because, you know, we always think we’re not doing enough.
Oh my god, everyone does the same thing.
Yeah! Do I deserve that title? I don’t know.
I had the exact same crisis when I put "environmentalist" in my LinkedIn title. I thought, oh my god, people are going to laugh at me. And then… no one said anything.
laughs But one of the biggest things in my sustainability journey has been recognising joy in it. And that wasn’t something I expected.
I grew up with a sustainable mindset—my mother was zero-waste OG before it was even a thing. But when I consciously started making sustainability a bigger part of my life, I went through a couple of years of extreme anxiety.
I was thinking: We’re going the wrong way. Everything’s going to collapse. My children won’t have a future. If I have grandchildren, they’ll inherit a broken world. It was crippling.
Then, randomly, I decided—without really connecting it to my anxiety—Hey, zero waste sounds like a cool New Year’s resolution. I don’t know what it is, but I’ll give it a go for a month.
At first, it was really hard. But what I found was that it kept connecting me to joy. All these unexpected little avenues of happiness.
Now, the anxiety is gone. I’m still deeply concerned, of course, but it doesn’t consume me anymore. I sleep well. I don’t lie awake at night panicking.
I’ve realised I can’t control everything, but I can control what I do. And that shift—focusing on joy, rather than panic—has made all the difference.
Everything I’ve done on this sustainability journey has brought me pleasure or even great joy. And that includes the simplest things, like watching a beautiful sunset.
The biggest surprise? I stopped being scared of spiders and creepy crawlies. I used to be terrified of them, but now I’m like, Oh. They’re just part of the planet.
It’s amazing what happens when you start making small changes. Right now, I’m obsessed with gardening. And I’ve never loved gardening before. But suddenly, I think about it all the time.
Yeah, you do become all about it, don’t you? It’s weird.
I bought a pretty neglected lifestyle block a couple of years ago—it was just an estate. And for two years, I was fully in gardening personality mode. That was all I thought about: how many holes I had to dig that weekend, whether the calluses on my hands had toughened up yet, what I needed to plant next.
I became that person—completely obsessed.
And you’re right. I’ve never been too bad with general insects, but spiders terrified me. Now, I can be in a room with one. I’ll move it outside rather than smashing it.
Yeah, I don’t need to kill it anymore.
Exactly. And I try to get that across to other people—how important they are.
I love that approach of joy. That’s actually something Ethically Kate talks about too. There’s this prevailing idea that sustainability is all about giving stuff up.
And, look—let’s be honest. We can’t continue to live the way so many of us do. So, yes, there is an element of change. But it doesn’t have to be bad.
Yeah! I like that you said change, not sacrifice. That’s such an important reframe.
I’ve always said, “You sacrifice some things, but you gain so much more.” But actually, change is the better word. When you change things, you gain so much more.
It’s satisfying, right? You’re not giving something up—because what you get in return is so much better.
Yes! There is nothing better than standing outside in my growing food forest now. It is so much cooler than a new pair of shoes.
We all know that happiness doesn’t come from the things we buy. But we still fall into the trap sometimes. No one’s perfect.
So, what is zero waste to you? I’ve never talked about it on here before, and I know it means different things to different people.
Well, basically, it’s in the name—you aim to generate zero waste.
In te reo Māori, we call it parakore. There’s actually a Parakore Movement that helps marae set up food waste systems and educates people about it. Their mahi is incredible.
For me, though, it’s important to acknowledge that I’m not perfect at it. I’m not some saint of zero waste. It’s an aspirational goal.
Sometimes, I feel like I’m not doing enough, but then I remind myself to look back at my pre-2018 self. And I realise—actually, I have come a long way.
There’s still a lot of work to do, but it’s about minimising waste as much as possible. That means things like choosing Ethique beauty bars, buying products that don’t leave waste behind, using up everything I buy.
For example, all my makeup comes in glass jars. My skincare is in glass. Now, glass has its own environmental issues, but it’s not harmful in the way plastic is.
I also make a conscious effort to deny myself things I don’t actually need. And I don’t mean deny in a way that feels restrictive—I enjoy it.
Sometimes I’ll see something and think, Oh, I really want that. Then I remind myself, But do you really need it? And there’s a kind of pleasure in choosing not to consume unnecessarily.
I like that—simplifying. You’re not going without, you’re streamlining.
That’s much nicer.
I was actually going to ask—what are the things you haven’t been able to do yet? Because in the zero-waste space, there’s a lot of… I don’t know how to put this nicely… cattiness.
There’s so much judgment in environmentalism. And the truth is, there is no such thing as a perfect environmentalist. There’s no such thing as a perfect person, period.
So, what have you found hard?
Oh, lots of things!
For example, a friend recently asked me, “So your undies… they’re secondhand, right?” And I was like, “Oh… no.”
There are some things I won’t change.
Ethically Kate actually put up a great post recently thanking people who imperfectly try to be sustainable. She was like, “Thank you to the people who leave the bike at home but drive their electric car instead. Thank you to the vegans who still fly occasionally.”
Yes! The vegans who fly every week!
Exactly. The post was basically saying, "Thank you to everyone who tries, even if it’s imperfect."
I also saw another post that said, "What difference can one person make?" And the response was: "Well, what if 8 billion people all did something? Then we’d have massive change."
So, yeah—there are things I don’t do.
I won’t buy secondhand underwear. I try to buy only natural fiber sheets, and they have to be local and not packaged in plastic. That’s a rule I’ve set for myself.
And a lot of sheets now come in fabric bags instead of plastic, which is great!
I’m sure there are tons of other things I don’t do perfectly, but I can’t think of them all right now.
But it’s refreshing to hear that honesty.
I mean, let’s be real—most people are not going to buy secondhand underwear.
If you are looking for ethical options, though, I highly recommend Nisa! Do you know who they are?
No, I don’t!
They’re an amazing organisation in Wellington. They work with refugee women—many of their seamstresses are refugees.
They just did a crowdfunding round to keep the business afloat. Everything is fair trade, ethically sourced, and beautifully made.
Brilliant. Thank you so much for telling me about them!
N-I-S-A.
Got it!
Okay, let’s talk about sustainable fashion, because this is one of the things that impresses me most about you.
You are the MC at every event I ever go to, I swear to god. And you always make them so warm and welcoming. I hate black-tie events—usually, they feel awkward and stiff—but you make them feel kind.
But you do have to dress in black-tie fashion for those events. How do you make that sustainable?
Kiri Nathan is one of my best friends, so I go to her for nearly everything.
In fact, there are two designers I go to—Kiri Nathan and Turet Knuefermann (TK Store). If I need a black-tie or cocktail outfit, I only go to them.
Oh, that’s easy then!
It is easy! And I also go to them for day clothes.
Shjark is another brand I love. They’re just up the road from my house.
Shjark?
Yes, spelled S-H-J-A-R-K. It’s "shark" but with a J.
I don’t want anyone to feel left out, but I was actually going to ask—who are your favorite sustainable fashion brands?
Oh, I love Kiri Nathan, Turet Knuefermann, and Shjark.
These three designers are incredible—not just in terms of sustainability but in the way they think about their craft and the world.
Kiri Nathan’s pieces are beautiful.
Aren’t they?!
In fact, everything I wear for New Zealander of the Year is by Kiri Nathan.
Oh, that’s cool. And she was honored this year, wasn’t she?
Yeah! She was in the top three earlier this year.
That was very cool.
Yeah, nothing to do with me—she was voted in fair and square!
laughs I hope no one would suggest otherwise!
What other tips do you have for people who want to build a sustainable wardrobe? Do you follow the capsule wardrobe philosophy?
No, I don’t do capsule wardrobes.
In fact, if anything, I probably have too many clothes! But I buy mostly secondhand.
And I don’t actually like shopping. That’s not a sustainability thing—it’s just a me thing. My poor daughter loves shopping, and I don’t.
If I do need something and I’m not going to one of my three favorite designers, my first stop is secondhand boutiques.
I’m quite efficient—I’ll go in, spend no more than half an hour, and if I don’t find anything, I leave. I also don’t need to pull everything off the rack—I can usually tell by the fabric whether it’s something I’ll want to try on.
I was obsessed with shopping as a teenager, but now? Hate it.
Same!
And I think once you really commit to sustainability, the appeal of shopping disappears. I’ve become snobby about boutiques that aren’t local or secondhand.
If a store has more than five of the same top, I’m like, Nope. Fast fashion. Not interested.
Right?!
Of course, Shein and Temu don’t have physical stores yet, but I’m sure it’s coming…
Ugh, yeah.
Did you know that Shein and Temu ship so much freight that they now account for about one in every four airliners of cargo?
That is terrible.
It’s horrifying. They’re actually breaking the international freight system.
And I get that fast fashion is a complex issue. I appreciate that some people can only afford those clothes.
Yeah, and those people are not the ones we’re talking to.
But it is frustrating, especially when secondhand clothes used to be accessible and affordable, and now they’ve been monetized.
That’s the downside of the secondhand market, right?
Yeah. And now, there’s so much fast fashion that thrift stores are overflowing with poorly made, synthetic clothing that no one wants. It just piles up into mountains of polyester waste.
Yep.
Okay, shifting gears a little—your beauty routine. I know you’ve shared a lot about the products you use, and I get asked about this all the time.
Aside from Ethique—because this isn’t an Ethique endorsement request! I don’t work there anymore—what other Kiwi brands do you love for sustainable beauty and home products?
Oh, so many!
For home products, Will & Abel is fantastic for soaps and laundry liquid. We have their all-purpose cleaner, but honestly, we don’t use it much because we just clean with hot water, vinegar, or baking soda.
For skincare, there are so many incredible Kiwi brands. Some of my favorites:
And of course, even though you said I don’t have to mention it… Ethique.
laughs That’s fine.
I know the feeling—it’s so hard to name brands without worrying that you’re leaving someone out.
Yes! I feel slightly stressed about that now.
You talked about joy, and I love that reframing of sustainability.
But for people who don’t see it that way, how do you stay motivated?
Like, when you want something that goes against your values, how do you stay on track?
Or do you let yourself slip sometimes and just forgive yourself?
Oh, I’ve definitely been tempted.
A good example—last year, I was in Germany and I saw a beautiful coat. I could have bought it because it was a local designer, so technically it fit my rules.
But I didn’t buy it.
Then I came home, and I was like, I should have bought that coat. I kept thinking about it. Then I looked online, and it was on sale.
I almost bought it.
But then I reminded myself—You made a rule. You don’t buy things that create unnecessary emissions. You’re not in Germany anymore.
So instead of buying it, I just kept looking at it.
Every few days, I’d check the website. I’d almost add it to my cart. And then I’d stop myself again.
And eventually… the temptation disappeared. I just lost interest.
That’s so interesting—it’s like you brain-trained yourself!
Exactly! I just kept looking at it until I didn’t want it anymore.
That reminds me of when one of my friends got caught smoking as a kid. Her parents made her smoke four in a row until she felt sick, and she never touched them again.
laughs A bit different, but I see the logic!
I have been really close to breaking my own rules sometimes.
But I always pause and think, Just wait a couple of hours. See if you still feel the same way tomorrow.
And usually? I forget about it entirely.
Most of us have had packages arrive, and we’re so excited to open them—only to wear the thing once and forget about it.
The average piece of clothing is worn seven times before it’s discarded. And people are outraged when I say that.
Just a reminder—your personal experience does not override statistics!
Yep, exactly.
Okay, penultimate question.
What advice would you give to someone starting on their zero-waste journey?
Just start. And expect to fail immediately!
When I first tried zero waste, I failed within an hour.
But I had already committed to doing it for a month, so I just kept going.
So my advice? Give yourself a timeline—a week, a month, whatever. And at the end of that time, you can decide whether you want to continue.
I bet you will.
When you feel smug about it, that’s instant joy.
Yes! Smugness is a great motivator.
Okay, my final question—my favorite question—and I never give people a heads-up about this because I want your first, instinctive answer.
If you were Global Supreme Overlord and had the power to do anything to make the world a better place, what would be the first thing you’d do?
Okay… immediately what popped into my head was compost.
No thought went into that whatsoever. But I think the reason that was my gut reaction is because half of what comes out of our households is food waste.
So, imagine if everyone composted. If every single person took responsibility for their own waste—what a massive difference that would make.
And Project Drawdown would agree with you! Reducing food waste is the single most effective thing households can do to lower emissions.
That’s a good answer. I think you’re the first person to say compost.
Oh, good!
I mean, I don’t think enforcing mandatory composting would be wildly popular, but…
laughs No, it wouldn’t be.
I keep waiting for someone to say, “I’d get rid of fossil fuels.” Actually—no, wait. Someone did say that. But I’ve also had answers like ban raisins.
That might have been my answer, to be fair.
laughs I mean, it’s such a complex issue, right? Even plastics—plastic is, in a lot of ways, life-saving and incredibly useful. The problem isn’t plastic itself—it’s how we use it, dispose of it, and overproduce it.
Same with fossil fuels. We do things because they make sense at the time. But when they stop making sense, we should stop doing them.
So I don’t know if getting rid of all fossil fuels immediately would be the right answer, because we aren’t ready yet. We haven’t built the systems to replace them properly.
Exactly.
And honestly, I think the fastest way to solve the plastic problem would be to make the companies who produce it responsible for its disposal.
If Coca-Cola suddenly had to deal with all the plastic bottles they churn out? Either they’d stop making them, or there’d be a lot more recycling infrastructure.
Oh boy, they would.
Anyway—before we wrap up, is there anything else you want to tell people? About anything you like?
Well, now that I’m on a compost vibe—if you can compost, do it.
If you can’t, find someone you can take your compost to. In a lot of cities now, councils are picking up food waste, which is great, but composting at home is still the best thing you can do.
If you can’t compost at home, try setting up a shared composting space with your community.
In Auckland, Kahumana Farm has a Soil Factory where they’ll come and pick up your food scraps for a small fee and use them in their garden.
So there are solutions out there!
And more broadly, I’d just say—if you’re thinking about making a sustainable change, just start. Every little thing does matter.
And don’t listen to people who say individuals can’t make a difference. Yes, of course, we need governments and corporations to step up. But that doesn’t mean we’re off the hook.
Every little bit of collective action does add up.
So very true.
And all of those "small" actions at the consumer level? They’re what signal to governments and businesses what we want.
Exactly!
Beautiful.
Thank you so, so much. You have been an absolute pleasure to chat with—as I knew you would be.
Thank you!
And we’ll have you on again in six months to see where your next sustainability obsession has taken you.
laughs Yes! It’ll be interesting to see if I move past gardening, or if I just go full-blown mad gardener.
Yeah, could be!
How cool was that?
She is genuinely one of the kindest, warmest people you will ever meet. She just has this natural vibrancy about her.
But what I really loved was two things:
I say it all the time—it’s about progress, not perfection. But there will always be people in your comment section telling you you’re not doing enough, that you’re a hypocrite for not being perfect.
So I love that from her.
Thank you again, Miriama. Always wonderful to chat.
Next week, we’re back with another This or That episode, where we’ll pit different sustainability myths against each other and see which one holds up.
(Smash them against each other, really. Smash is quite a violent word, isn’t it? But that’s what it feels like when I write these scripts sometimes!)
See you next week!
Until then—kia ora.
And there you go!
I hope you learned something and realized that being green isn’t about having all your pantry items in matching glass jars or moving to a commune.
If you enjoyed this episode, please don’t keep it to yourself!
And feel free to drop me a rating and hit the subscribe button.
Kia ora, and I’ll see you next week.
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