It's Earth Day! So let's talk about... Sharks. And if they all die, we will too.

Happy Earth Day everyone! It can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people and this year I have decided to make it about sharks. Obviously.

I am obviously somewhat obsessed with sharks, but people are so scared of them, sometimes to the point of wanting to cull them all. But sharks are essential for our planet and I am going to explain why and how you can help them in this episode.

To help I am joined by my guest co-host Kate, one of the team from Business, but Better, who is also a sustainable event planner.

Find us online:
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Transcript:

Brianne: Kia ora kaitiaki and welcome to Now, That's What I Call Green, the podcast that uses a science-based approach to expose the bullshit green scans and help you understand the sustainability world that little bit better. So, if you are looking to navigate through everything green or not so green, you have come to the right place.

Brianne: Kia ora kaitiaki and welcome back. Today is Earth Day and we are talking about sharks. Is this a weird combination? I don't care. We also have a co-host. Welcome to Kate. Some of you will know Kate. She's one of the team at Business But Better, my free education hub for ethical entrepreneurs, and she's also a sustainable events planner. She launched RAD last year and she's been pestering me to let her on the pod. So here we are and I'm very sorry for what is about to happen.

Brianne: Happy Earth Day Kate! It was also your birthday last week. So happy birthday! How is 31 feeling?

Kate: Thank you. Happy Earth Day. 31 feels like, old, like injure your neck for no reason.  Yeah, I moved a scooter out of the way and I was like, why does my neck hurt? But it feels like growth, learning and actually, yeah, feels like a fresh start.

Brianne: Aww, I love that. I'm 37 this week and I will be having a mental breakdown. So, you're much more grown up.

Kate: But April is going to be the best month to do so.

Brianne: To have a mental breakdown? Or do I be born?

Kate: Both.

Brianne: Okay, sold. I know a few people born in this month and it is a good month. Okay, so why are we talking sharks? I obviously am somewhat obsessed with sharks, but people are so scared of them and obviously there are some people out there who think we should keep culling them and I know a few people who think that we should just get rid of them altogether. Not only is that a fricking tragedy, it would be a death sentence for our oceans, which would obviously be a death sentence for us. They help keep the oceanic food chain in check and ensure the health of our seas.

Brianne: Without them, the systems would be out of balance and that would have serious knock-on effects not just in the ocean but for us, as I mentioned. And yet, everybody's fucking frightened of them. And I get it, you know, big toothy monstrous depictions in movies and Shark Week. They depicted the disease mindless man eaters. They're not. They are the apex predator of the ocean, if we're ignoring the Orca, which we're gonna ignore for today. This position at the top of the food chain means they are incredibly important.

Brianne: It allows sharks to regulate the species below them and ensuring the balance. Great white sharks are the number one bad guy, right? But they control the populations of seals and sea lions, preventing them from depleting stocks of the many fish which they eat. And that is vital for the ecosystem's health and commercial fishing. Yes, without sharks, you wouldn't have commercial fishing. And because sharks prey on the sick and weaker members of other species, this natural selection ensures that only the fittest individuals survive and reproduce, which leads to stronger, more resilient fish populations.

Brianne: And the tiger shark, which is probably my personal favourite, because they're kinda cute like puppies and I just want to give one a pat, they will give anything a nibble. They are just excellent sea cleaners, which does mean, unfortunately, they eat some of the stuff we throw in the ocean too, which isn't great. Finally, before I get off my soapbox, sharks help protect really important habitats like seagrass beds and coral reefs by keeping populations of things which graze on them down. Coral reefs cover less than 1% of the sea floor. We all know that they're bleaching. Yet they hold 25% of all biodiversity. So they're really fucking important.

Brianne: We kill over 100 million sharks every single year. You're more likely to be killed by a cow. And as someone who has four cows, I can understand the sentiment. They sometimes get a look in their eye, like, if you don't give me my hay in one millisecond, I am going to run you over. And then sometimes they're the cutest things in the world. So, you know.

Brianne: If sharks vanished from the oceans, we would all fucking die. End of story. The balance of marine life would tilt into chaos. Hordes of smaller fish would multiply like they're at an all-you-can-eat buffet, eating everything until they crash the entire ecosystem. Seagrass beds would transform into deserts, so that's your turtles, your dugongs, and other species gone.

Brianne: Coral reefs would literally crumble from being nibbled by species like the parrotfish. It would be a marine massacre. And then the ripple effect would hit us, fisheries would collapse, it would devastate coastal economies, create seafood ghost towns. Over two billion people depend on the ocean for their protein needs. And let's not forget that the added twist, the ocean would fail in its role as a carbon sink. So we would tip the scale faster and faster towards worse and worse climate change.

Brianne: Essentially, without sharks, the ocean throws a tantrum that no amount of human ingenuity can pacify. The end is at nigh, it's here, and it's salty and it's fish-less.

Brianne: I was quite proud of that monologue. A little bit dramatic about it, but I just, I think people really need to understand sharks are really important. Okay, I'm gonna chill out now. I have some questions for you. This is a trivia moment, because I've never had a co-host before and I have no idea what I'm doing.

Kate: Hit me, hit me.

Brianne: Sharks are older than trees, true or false?

Kate: True.

Brianne: Yes.

Kate: Dinosaurs.

Brianne: They're not dinosaurs. But they're pretty fricking old. Yeah, no, they're not related to dinosaurs in any real way, but they're 400 million years old. Trees are only 350 million, so they're basically babies. Weird to think though, right?

Kate: Yes, and we're complaining about 31 and 37!

Brianne: I mean, you've put it like that. We're the babies. That's true. And honestly, I shouldn't complain about age and it's a ridiculous societal thing, but I just, I get stressed about it. My knees creak now. Actually, that's not true. My knees started to creak at like 27.

Kate: I love this. Well, that's why you like spending time underwater with the sharks. This is true. Your knees cannot creak under the water.

Brianne: That's true. Can sharks blink?

Kate: No.

Brianne: Correct. They don't have eyelids like we do. They have when they get close to prey, you'll see that they look like they close their eyes.

Kate: Is it that thin white layer? Like a wee white layer goes up.

Brianne: Yeah.

Kate: So, okay. All right. I used to be obsessed with shark week.  So it was like mine, my dad and my sister thing. I don't know where my mom went. I'm sure to have some peace and quiet, but dad, Grace and I would sit there and we'd watch Shark Week, which was, you know, what, National Geo, 10 hours a day for like three, five days, whatever. And we got really into it. And so I remember going to school and like bringing up all these facts that obviously you find exciting. No one cared. But no, but now I've found my people, right? I'm on board. Sharks are amazing.

Kate: I was like that at school too, I get it.

Brianne: Have you seen a goblin shark?

Brianne: Yes, aren't they horrifying?

Kate: It is disgusting. Yeah, that's sort of what I feel I look like in the morning.

Kate: Can confirm. But I love that the first thing about the goblin shark is it's a slow swimmer and it doesn't eat humans. I mean, to be honest, I don't care if it eats me. By the time I see it I’m dead! I will faint underwater. Anyway, sorry.

Brianne: Maybe it looks cuter underwater? I don't think it does. I've seen underwater videos of them.

Kate: It's like a naked mole rat for the shark world.

Brianne: It is. There is uglier things in the sea.

Kate: That’s a whole podcast.

Brianne: It is. It is! Ugly things under the sea. Look at anglerfish.

Kate: Okay, yes, we need this.

Brianne: Do sharks lay eggs or give birth to live young?

Kate: Live.

Brianne: Half right.

Kate: Half?

Brianne: Because some of them do either. Yeah, sometimes you get shark eggs, which you may have seen. They're called mermaid purses washing up on beaches. Some sharks lay eggs, some sharks give birth to live young. But something interesting, right, super predatory species, like the great white, for example, they will eat one another in the womb. And then the winning shark, the one that's left, it's quite literally survival of the fittest. How fun, it's just terrific.

Kate: That's amazing.

Brianne: Aren't you glad that doesn't happen in human wombs? Quite tumultuous.

Kate: But I hear about like the twin eats the other twin, and you always think it's not real, maybe it's real.

Brianne: I don't know if it's quite literal, but you know, we will, I like that. Yeah. It's genuinely insane. What is the most famous type of shark?

Kate: Oh, okay. Surely the great white from Jaws?

Brianne: Yeah. Yeah.

Kate: Yeah. Surely. This is great. I haven't even seen these questions and I am three for four, mate.

Brianne: You are a sharkologist? Sharkologist. A marine biologist sounds boring.

Kate: I would love that, except I'm terrified of... I can't do what you do, the diving underwater.

Brianne: You would be surprised.

Kate: I've been in a submarine once.

Brianne: That's awesome.

Kate: Yeah, in Hawaii. It was awesome. And the colours changed. I remember I saw the most amazing animals. Everyone was like “turtles!” And we only saw one shark, and it definitely wasn't a great one.

Brianne: Yeah, that's very cool you're in a submarine, but I think you surprised yourself. There's a lot of people who say I couldn't dive under the water, but I tried when I was – so my granddad was a diver, my dad was a sports diver, quite prolific from my understanding, which is great because I have someone to ask questions of. So I figured I'm obsessed with the ocean and I failed spectacularly because I just panicked and then I said, I'm not doing this, I can't do it anymore. I tried again when I was 25, 26 and had my shit together a little bit more, a little bit more, a lot, let's not get excited. And it was okay. It's hard to, your open water certification kind of sucks. It's just skills and boring and it's just boring. And I learnt in an alpine lake, but it's magical once you get through that. It's worth persevering.

Kate: Yeah, that's very interesting.

Brianne: And I think you'd be good at it because you're one of those people that's good in a crisis and your brain is a little bit like, this might be a crisis, we are not supposed to be breathing underwater. So you just become a chill human being.

Kate: And have you seen a shark yet?

Brianne: Shitloads of sharks.

Kate: You've seen so many sharks?

Brianne: So many sharks! When I went diving off the coast of, well, 300 kilometres off the coast of Western Australia, I have completely forgotten the name of the atoll. It doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. You only get like 70-ish divers there a year, right, because it's really hard to access. You can only go in a two or three-month period. And totally pristine reefs and just sharks for days. It was incredible. I remember we dove down this wall and I think it was like 120 metres deep beneath us. We were, I don't know, 40 metres deep, you know, max limit for recreational. And there was just buckets of sharks, grey reefies and silver tips we saw at that point. I have seen a tiger shark from a distance, but that's really it.

Kate: So that's your favourite. Why?

Brianne: Oh, because they look like little puppies.

Kate: Like puppies?

Brianne: Google tiger sharks and you will see what I mean. And they have stripes.

Kate: The goblin shark came up again… Please, everyone, Google! We're going to put a poll up. Tiger shark versus goblin shark. Which would you rather run into in the wild? Oh, tiger sharks are cute!

Brianne: Yeah, they've got a little flat face. Hammers are pretty cute too. I've seen a baby hammer and it nearly died and fell out of the boat. I love it. That's not a tiger shark. That's a sand tiger shark.

Kate: A sand tiger shark?

Brianne: Which is also good. They are a nurse shark. Oh. They look real savage with their hair, quite cuddly.

Kate: Is anyone else learning a lot today? Because I sure am.

Brianne: I have one more question for you.

Kate: Okay.

Brianne: Can sharks live in fresh water?

Kate: No.

Brianne: 99% right, except one that can. The bull shark. That is the one shark I do not want to run into. Like bloody muscle-bound beasties.

Kate: Okay, so bull like B-U-L-L.

Brianne: Yeah. They are chonky and they are not friendly and they are the ones that are responsible for attacking people in rivers.

Kate: Ooh, it's known as the Zambezi shark.

Brianne: I was trying to make a pun like because you'll Zambezi yourself but I couldn't come up with anything.

Kate: If you see it, you're Zambezi your pants.

Brianne: Yeah, looking at these photos. It's not flowing, is it?

Kate: So fresh water, how, why, what do you know?

Brianne: What the biomechanics behind it? The physiology?

Kate: Yeah, just how come that's the only one?

Brianne: It's something to do with the way they can regulate the isotensity of their shells. I actually don't know the full mechanism behind it.

Kate: Well, four weeks ago one was spotted in Australia lurking metres offshore.

Brianne: Yeah, Australia's like that. They'll work for you.

Kate: Good luck to you, and I've changed my goal of the year.

Brianne: Fiji's got lots of bull and tiger sharks and people die with them all the time and they're always fine touch wood.

Kate: Oh, okay.

Brianne: So I think you've learned a little bit about sharks, but you already knew that they were vital and amazing and incredible and kind of cute.

Kate: Yeah, I'm a fan. I'm a fan. I feel like even in your tank, because we're obviously at your house right now recording the podcast, I saw your fish tank and you have like tiny little baby shark versions. What are they?

Brianne: They're tropical fish but they are technically called sharks.

Kate: They look like the closest you could get at your house. In New Zealand/anywhere. But I love them. They are, yeah, they're definitely amazing. And I didn't realise how vital they were.

Brianne: Yeah, it is something that people don't think about is all these apex predators are actually really important and we are destroying them faster than we can say important. So good for us. So how do we protect them better? One of the single most impactful things you can do is make informed choices about what you consume as always. So stop buying products that harm sharks. Have you heard of something called shark fin soup?

Kate: Yes, but can you get it in New Zealand?

Brianne: You certainly can't fin sharks here in Aotearoa, but I don't know if you can consume it or not. They have no problem with the customary aspect of it. It's the way that the sharks are finned. So they are finned while they're alive. They take off their dorsal and the pectoral fins and then they throw them back in the water, so they drown.

Kate: That is disgusting. It's awful. Because they can't move forwards.

Brianne: Well, not all sharks need to move forwards to breathe, but they just quite literally cannot swim without effectively stabilizers. If you've got a plane, right, and you left its wings there, this is a really weird analogy, you left its wings there, but you took its tail off, its pilots, anyone listening, will be like, what the fuck? But they just can't control where they go. It's awful. And it's just a massive waste as well.

Kate: But I wouldn't know, apart from shark fin soup, which to be honest is, I feel like that's quite obvious, you can make a good decision about that, I wouldn't know what other products I'm buying that have a negative impact on sharks, especially down, further down the supply chain. I wouldn't have a clue.

Brianne: Yeah, well you use something called Squalane, which comes from sharks, but also it mostly doesn't anymore. You get Squalene, so they're spelled slightly different, but most of the Squalane, the one that supposedly comes from sharks, doesn't now anyway. So always check with your suppliers of your cosmetic ingredients, where they source their squalene or squalane from, because 90% of the time it won't actually be sharks, which is obviously important, but it is worth checking. It comes from other oils, like olive, for example.

Kate: Oh, it's oil based?

Brianne: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kate: Great name, squalene. Yeah, it is. It sounds like Eileen, like...

Brianne: You want to rub Eileen oil on you?

Kate: Eileen's sister playing squash or something. I'm not sure! This is how my brain works, but I put it this way…I'm never going to forget that word. Not in the cosmetics world for me personally. In fact, I hardly even wear it, but would that be something that's listed on my products?

Brianne: Yes. It's not super common, but it is one of those examples. It is mostly the fishing industry that you're going to come across, because obviously you'll see things written as shark or flake or lemon fish. Often it's just a catch-all for an unknown species and often it's shark. Because there's lots of different species.

Kate: I have a question. Okay, I've got two kids. We enjoy fish and chips occasionally. And they came home and they said “my friend at school told me that the fish is shark.” True?

Brianne: Could be, yeah. But shark is kind of a catch-all right? So it could well be a shark but it won't be a piece of great white that someone's carved off. Hopefully. But it'll it yeah, it could well be shark.

Kate: Imagine goblin shark with your chips!

Brianne: You've got a thing about goblin shark.

Kate: Now I do.

Brianne: I'm gonna sneak into your house and stick one on the ceiling that glows in the dark So that when you turn the lights off and go to be it. Oh, that would be hilarious I'll get you go to film it for me.

Kate: Okay, so I thought she was a cool auntie, but now she wants to traumatise me and my children?

Brianne: No, just you. I don't have anything against your children. I just want to know what happens. Have you ever seen the movie called Idle Hands? No. It's quite funny. I haven't seen it in years, actually, so I suspect it's no longer as funny as I thought it was when I was a kid.

Kate: One of those, eh?

Brianne: It's probably actually problematic in numerous ways.

Kate: Yeah, I was about to say that. One of those shows that gets ruined once you get a sense of like goodness in your life and a bit PC.

Brianne: Yeah, since I've not been a dick. Well, I don't know, so nobody ruin me for this, but I remember there was one scene where on the ceiling, someone lies down, turns the lights off, and on the ceiling is written “I'm under the bed”, and it's for some reason stuck with me, and I always look at my ceiling when I go to bed. Because imagine that. Fear.

Kate: Yeah, that's a no.

Brianne: The movie's meant to be a comedy, I found it quite stressful. So, sharks in soup sucks. And if you eat seafood, and look, I am a huge advocate, honestly speaking, for lessening your seafood intake as much as you can, appreciating lots of people cannot, but always check if it's sustainably sourced. There is something called the Best Fish Guide from Forest and Bird that will help you make better choices. I think Greenpeace has something similar as well.

Kate: Yeah, educating yourself and others is so crucial. I feel like the more people know about sharks, the better we can help. And please share this podcast, watch the documentaries. Does Shark Week exist? Fill me in, please message Brianne, she can pass it on. And reading books about marine life. Following ocean conservation organisations…who is your favourite then? Who are we following on social media?

Brianne: Ah, okay, appreciate it.

Kate: Yeah, but I need help. I'm learning.

Brianne: Obviously, I'm a big fan of Dr Sylvie Earle, so her organisation, Mission Blue. We supported that when I was at a tech. WWF on the board, have to say that one. Yeah. Sustainable Coastlines are a good one in New Zealand. Sorry, I've got to stop saying New Zealand like that. I don't know why it's become a habit.

Kate: Anyone listening overseas, I know we have a, we, like I've been here for 10 minutes, but we have followers from overseas.

Brianne: Actually you’ve been here for 21 minutes?

Kate: Oh, “New Ziland” it is not how we say it. She's playing it up.

Brianne: We actually say Aotearoa.

Kate: Yes, we do. Okay, so when they love something like animals, even I feel like that extends to everything, native trees for Earth Week, when you love something and understand it further you want to protect it more.

Brianne: Exactly. And the other one, of course, is SeaLegacy, founded by Christina Mitty…How do I say her last name? I need to learn this. Do you know why?! Because Kate fucking messaged her yesterday and said, “hey, will you go on this podcast?” And I thought, there's no way! I mean, I tagged her in my Instagram story because I was like, “oh, that'd be funny.” And then she liked it. She followed me and now she's coming on the podcast!

Kate: I have no shame.

Brianne: I have a little bit of panic going on.

Kate: Okay, this is such a side note and we can put this into any podcast, but if you know someone that Breanne should talk to, anyone, like Jacinda level, above, anyone you want to! We're talking business, we're talking sustainability…can you message BrIanne and I'm going to live and hope she passes it on to me. I will reach out to them and I will get her on the podcast. So if you're a fan of someone, international, local, please tell us. This is my call out.

Brianne: Yeah. Well, I'm stoked that Cristina Mittermeier… she's Mexican and I don't want to say it wrong, I know I'm saying it wrong.

Kate: She likes being called Mitty, I think.

Brianne: She does. Well, I will be able to ask her when I have got over myself and stopped panicking. Anyway, moving on. If you can, supporting conservation groups is really helpful too, obviously. We've listed a few organisations, but again, Our Seas, Our Future, which is another one based in Aotearoa, Sustainable Coastlines, WWF, big fan, great work, Mission Blue, Sea Legacy, there's loads out there. And I appreciate that we're in… what is it? A “cozzy living crisis?” No, it's not.

Kate: It's a recession now. It was a cost of living crisis.

Brianne: Is it a recession?

Kate: Yes. A lot of money make a lot of people…?

Kate: A lot of money!

Brianne: A lot of people make a lot of money and a recession certainly exploiting people. So that's fun. I would like an episode on that. I am not an economist. I'll get an economist on. A fun one. Anyone got any suggestions for fun economists? Go for your life.

Kate: And don't underestimate the power of your voice. Advocate for better policies and protections for marine life by signing petitions, writing to your local reps and participating in community actions like beach cleanups.

Brianne: I will be organising some incredible beach cleanups. Get it? Incredible? They'll be incredibly incredible.

Kate: *disappointed sigh*

Brianne: Sorry.

Kate: And we won't find any waste from Incrediballs on the beach.

Brianne: No, you won't. I would die! I was going on a hike, right? I went to this retreat a few weeks ago and we were up in the pristine, I've forgotten the name of the track, I want to say Ruapehu but that's not it. It's famous, oh my God, I grew up there! Brianne, your brain.. Routeburn!

Kate: Oh yeah, I know nothing about geography. I've lived here a long time…

Brianne: Oh dear, that's okay. But I grew up there, I've been in the Routeburn lots of times and we were halfway up it in the most incredible environment and I saw a Nature Valley wrapper. If that was my company, I would curl up and die. How hideous. You know, we really need better packaging. That is another rant for a different podcast.

Kate: That is absolutely an Earth Day promise. You will never find Incrediballs packaging anywhere. Love sharks, invest in your marine life, and take some time this year to understand it. Or, go diving.

Brianne: Go out in the ocean if you can. It's just really, there is nothing like it. There is this weird sense of calm and peace that comes over you, I reckon. It's quite magical. Humans need to be near the ocean. If you can, appreciating, not everybody can. So I'm going to end on a request because this is something that has annoyed me forever. Please God, can someone make a decent fucking shark movie? Deep Blue Sea scared the living bejesus out of me as a kid. I must have been, I don't know how old I was when that came out, but I saw it in Queenstown in the old movie theater if anybody grew up in Queenstown knows what I mean And I had to leave three times and the third time my dad came out and he said “can you get a grip?” Turns out I couldn't get a grip. But it was crap. Absolutely rubbish. 47 Meters Down is ridiculous. The Black Demon is just “what? what? No”. So, Mr. Cameron James Cameron, I know you live here a lot of the time. Please make us a good shark movie.

Kate: Peter Jackson? I will really take anyone.

Brianne: Yeah, Quentin Tarantino.

Kate: Oh, he'd do it with a twist.

Brianne: Yeah it would be a few twists! The shark would have laser beams on the head and they probably walk or something. That already exists. Please don't make that. Yeah, that's my request. But if day, please make us a good shark video

Kate: Make them the hero.

Brianne: Yes, sharks are the hero. That's I think the kind of whole point of this podcast sharks are the freaking hero. They're not the mindless eating machines that you think they are, and they're quite cool and they have personalities. They're cleverer than you think they are. So on that note, have a great week, Kaitiaki. Happy Earth Day. Look after yourself and our planet. It's the only one we have.

Kate: Fish are friends, not food.

Brianne: Haha! See you next time.

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Brianne: And there you go. I hope you learned something and realised that being green isn't about everything in your pantry matching with those silly glass jars or living in a commune. If that's your jam, fabulous, but sustainability at its heart is just using what you need. If you enjoyed this episode, please don't keep it to yourself and feel free to drop me a rating and hit the subscribe button. me a rating and hit the subscribe button. Kia ora and I'll see you next week.

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