Plastic Pollution, Sustainable Business, and Saving Our Oceans with Tim Silverwood

By now, you probably know that I firmly believe we need to use business to change the world. So, I was very excited to chat with a leader in the environmental movement who also feels the same way, Tim Silverwood.

Tim is a trailblazer in the fight against plastic pollution, known for co-founding the powerful eco-movement Take 3 For The Sea. But that’s not all — he’s also the founder of the Ocean Impact Organisation, a group dedicated to working with innovative startups creating transformative solutions for ocean health.

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Transcript

Kia ora, kaitiaki, and welcome to Now That's What I Call Green. I'm your host, Brianne West—an environmentalist and entrepreneur trying to get you as excited about our planet as I am. I'm all about taking a scientific approach to making the world a better place, without judgment, and making it fun. And of course, we’ll be chatting about some of the most amazing creatures we share our planet with.

So if you are looking to navigate everything green—or not so green—you've come to the right place. Kia ora, and welcome back! I am very excited about our guest today. We have Tim Silverwood.

Now, have you heard of something called Take 3 for the Sea? It’s the idea that if you go to the beach, you pick up three bits of plastic. It’s obviously a little bit broader than that, but that’s where that very catchy title comes from.

Tim is joining me today. He is the definition of an ocean warrior, I guess. By his own definition, he was a little bit of a hippy growing up and has since moved into the belief that business is the way to change the world. Sound familiar? Well, here we go.

Thank you for joining me, Tim. The first question is always the biggest—tell me about you, your background, how you got to where you are, and what it is that you do. Because you’ve got a pretty interesting career history, I reckon.

Yeah, I've occasionally called myself an accidental environmentalist. I say that because I definitely had enough things going on around me to shape me into being an environmentalist, but I never thought I would build and lead an environmental organization, that I would be picketing corporations, leading pushes to change legislation, and all that kind of stuff.

I grew up in a beautiful patch of bush on the East Coast of Australia. That was probably the first formative experience for me—growing up in the bush, with 25 acres of wilderness around me. I just used to spend so much time out there, immersed in nature. That developed a love and appreciation for biodiversity and all the little things that made life in the bush tick.

When I went to high school, I really got into geography and learning about different cultures and different parts of the world. I had a grandmother who loved to travel. Long story short, I decided to study science and sustainability at uni, thinking, This might be my career—I might actually help the planet have a more prosperous future. Not just for all those beautiful critters I learned to love so much, but obviously for our own species too.

I loved it. Then I got to the end of my degree and thought, Well, it’s not that inspiring to go work for a government body trying to make incremental changes or to go work in an industry doing greenwashing. So I pressed pause, went and traveled the world, and did a lot of surfing—because I’m a surfer.

It was during those travels in my mid-20s that I started seeing the world’s problems firsthand. I particularly started noticing terrible pollution all across the planet, especially in those destinations surfers love to go—like the Indonesian archipelago and other exotic locations.

Long story short, I started Take 3 for the Sea with two amazing women, Mandy and Roberta, in 2009—almost 15 years ago. And that was wild. A big journey, that one.

Back then, plastic pollution was certainly known among scientific circles, and there was a growing cluster of environmentalists and activists saying, Hey guys, this is serious—this is blowing up in front of our faces. But it wasn’t mainstream yet. So I got to really ride a fantastic wave, being an environmental activist and doing all sorts of cool things.

I spent 10 years at Take 3 for the Sea, and then I started looking around thinking, Why is it that charities and non-profits are constantly the ones being tasked with cleaning up the mess that is so often the result of poor corporate behavior and ineffective government policies?

That’s when I thought, I need to figure out how business works.

For the last four and a half years, I’ve been working with a really cool project called Ocean Impact Organisation. We find and support startups and really cool businesses that have great solutions that change the way we treat the ocean.

So, a bit of a download there, but that’s where I am in my career currently. And I love every day of it.

And for everyone listening who also heard the episode with John a couple of weeks back, you’ll notice I tend to pick guests who think a lot like I do—that business, not just non-profits, is responsible for saving the world.

But let’s start with Take 3 for the Sea. That grew.

It’s a big organization—well, I don’t know in terms of headcount or anything else—but it’s a well-known one. How did you start it? And what advice do you have for someone who wants to do non-profit environmental work?

Yeah, well, the second part of that question is interesting because now I’ve sort of jumped over the fence a little bit. I’m still actively involved with Take 3 for the Sea and support a lot of non-profits and people working in that space, but I want to see more and more people stepping into the business realm and flexing their entrepreneurial muscle.

Because, like you, I strongly believe that business needs to be the source of solutions for a more prosperous and balanced future.

Take 3 for the Sea happened really quite beautifully. I’d had all these aha moments—seeing the problem firsthand, realizing that at university I had learned about all the complexities of economically sustainable development. Everything was high-level and complicated. But after all those personal experiences traveling and seeing pollution in every river, every beach, and every corner of every city, I thought, Actually, we should just start by cleaning up our mess.

It felt so simple compared to the big macro stuff I’d been learning about. So I started talking about the idea—about just cleaning up beaches, getting people mobilized to acknowledge this emerging problem, and doing something immediate about it.

There were a couple of moments where people spurred me on. The pivotal moment was when I was invited up on stage at a film screening in my hometown. They were screening The Cove—that film about the Taiji dolphin slaughter. One of the guys who was taking the film around, Dave Rastovich, a fantastic professional surfer, just said, Get up there and tell them what you’re thinking, what you want to do.

So I did. And someone in the audience knew about Mandy and Roberta’s Take 3 idea. They connected us immediately. Within a week, I was sitting around a coffee table with them, and the rest is history.

I was straight in like, Guys, you need help. I can help. Let’s do this together. And that was the start of an incredible journey that began 15 years ago.

That’s very cool. And so much of it comes down to timing, luck, and often who you know, right? But the very first thing you need to do is actually get started—in whatever way that looks.

Yeah. And looking back, I think the real secret sauce that made Take 3 blow up and become so widely known is, of course, its simplicity.

I maybe didn’t realize it at the time, but messaging, branding, and communication turned out to be my strong points. Next to conventional science, I think sociology and understanding human behavior is my thing.

Because without that, you’re never going to create cut-through, never going to inspire, engage, or actually get people to take action. So I really leaned into that. I used every tool available—social media, ambassadors, every opportunity to get on a stage, be in a film, do media.

And that, I think, really helped us gain awareness. The snowball started from there.

Yeah, very cool.

Brianne West:
Do you have any sort of proudest moments or impact stats from Take 3 for the Sea that you can share?

Tim Silverwood:
Like many things, we were a very lean team, and the organization continues to be very lean. You can look at the perception of how big it is, but that sort of belies how small it actually is. So when it came to actually trying to wrap our heads around impact, it was super, super difficult.

Until one day, we got a tap on the shoulder. It was Facebook—well, Meta, back in the day before they had even fully integrated Instagram. This was around 2015 or 2016. They reached out and said, Hey, we've been watching you guys, and we're really amazed at how you've been able to use this platform to get people to go out there and enact real-world impact.

And I was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, we’re awesome. And they said, We want to do a case study on you. So we actually featured in a book that Instagram and Facebook created about the power of Instagram. There was a big profile on us.

As part of that, they helped analyze a project we had been running with a university, trying to actually understand, If you're part of the Take 3 community and actively engaged, what does that actually mean in terms of how much plastic rubbish is being collected? Some of the stats were incredible—we found out we were active in 125 countries, and based on average participation numbers, we calculated the total amount of plastic being picked up by our community.

It was super cool at the time. That actually spurred me on—I had some meetings with Google, trying to figure out whether early machine-learning tools like AI could provide us with a software solution where people could snap a photo of their Take 3 for the Sea micro clean-up, and we could get real-time data on what was being found and where.

It never got off the ground, but long story short, it blew my mind how many people around the planet were involved. It made us realize that our impact was so much bigger than we could ever possibly imagine.

Brianne West:
Yeah, I mean, the biggest impact was awareness—the idea that making a difference can be so simple. Just take three pieces of plastic whenever you go to the beach. Beach cleanups. And it's impossible to measure the level of awareness you’ve raised for that.

Tim Silverwood:
Exactly. Another big, kind of crazy moment was when I got this very official letter in the post one day, with the US Embassy logo on it. I thought, What’s this all about? I opened it up—it was a stamped, sealed envelope—and inside was an invitation to go to the State Department in Washington, DC, to moderate a panel at the Our Ocean Conference, all about marine pollution.

I was like, Oh wow, this is cool. Not only were people all over the world watching us and taking action, but so were the bigwigs. That was pretty cool.

Brianne West:
That is very cool. Did you go?

Tim Silverwood:
Yeah, I went. And it was when Barack Obama was president. I sat there, and I basically presented and moderated a session in front of 140 world leaders. It was mind-blowing. I met Leonardo DiCaprio and all these other celebrities—it was unreal.

Brianne West:
Yeah, as you do. Did you hold it together, or did you get stage fright? Because I once met a bloke from an environmental charity who was also a model, and he was just so good-looking and so into all the things that I’m into that I actually forgot how to breathe. I forgot my own name. It was the most embarrassing moment of my life—easily.

So, did you manage to hold it together in front of Leonardo DiCaprio?

Tim Silverwood:
I did! I’ve got this trait—and I think it’s a good one, though sometimes it lets me down—where I wait until the last minute to pull all my thoughts together. If I’m getting up on stage for a keynote or opening remarks, I leave it so late in the piece to actually finalize everything.

For this event, the night before, I was sweating because I had to open with a presentation. And then I just decided to call them out. The conference was called Our Ocean. It's still one of the biggest ocean conservation gatherings on the calendar.

But I got up on stage and said, We call this Our Ocean, but it’s not Our Ocean. This ocean belongs to no one in this room. It belongs to the incredible biodiversity of life that inhabits it. And at that moment, I realized—Shit, I just got invited to represent this thing, and I just completely called them out on it.

But I still stand by it. I don’t say our ocean—I say the ocean.

Brianne West:
Yeah. Our ocean is kind of like our planet. I mean, I suppose it is and it isn’t. It sort of implies ownership, but also ownership and responsibility. It depends on how you look at it.

But I guess, if you’re not honest when you’re there, what’s the point?

Tim Silverwood:
Exactly. You’re going to get people talking about you regardless.

Brianne West:
Yeah, very true. That’s how I always approach speaking events, too. People have been chasing me for a presentation I have in a few days for months, and I’m like, Guys, I’m not writing a presentation two months before an event. I’m writing it the day before.

I know it’s annoying, but it is what it is.

Operating in the ocean plastic world is goddamn frustrating, horrifying, heartbreaking, terrifying—all of the above, right? What’s the worst thing you ever saw, or what frustrated you the most?

Tim Silverwood:
Oh gosh. Initially, it was just seeing those crazy sights with my own eyes. Now, we can just Google it—we can follow The Ocean Cleanup and see footage of rivers just flowing with plastic before their interceptor barriers go in.

But going and seeing it with my own eyes in those early years—that was huge. Sailing to the Great Pacific Garbage Patch in 2011—that was wild. I was with scientists who helped me understand that there aren’t floating islands of trash. It’s actually a plastic smog.

We were doing the science, and I remember putting the pieces together. We’d do a manta trawl sample for a mile and find all these tiny plastic particles. And then I’d look around at the sheer size of the ocean and think, Oh, right. So if we’re finding this much in just a small sample, and the ocean is this vast...

That was a huge moment for me.

But honestly, a more recent frustration? Watching the Olympics and seeing everyone drinking from plastic water bottles. The only time I saw a reusable bottle was when an Australian skateboarder had one.

Everyone else was just getting passed plastic bottle after plastic bottle. I was thinking, It’s 2024, people!

And, of course, one of their biggest sponsors was freaking Coca-Cola. They were promoting reuse at the Olympics—while filling reusable cups from single-use bottles.

Guys. Sometimes, I think I’m going insane.

Brianne West:
I really feel that. We had so much momentum over the past six, seven, eight years. And then, in the last few years, it’s gotten harder and harder. I know you live and breathe this every day, but we should be so much further along.

Tim Silverwood:
We should. But I choose to see this dip as a positive—I refuse to be depressed about it.

There’s been a shift in many countries, with environmental laws being stripped away—especially here in Aotearoa. But what’s good is that it’s inciting rage and getting more people engaged.

At the end of the day, consumer power and people are more powerful than governments. Because ultimately, governments are supposed to represent us.

Brianne West:
Totally—which segues nicely into our next conversation about Ocean Impact Organisation. Tell us more about OIO—what do you do, how do you help these businesses, and how do you find them?

Tim Silverwood:
And so we went and raised a bunch of money from philanthropy and corporates, and we offered it up as prize money. We've been doing that now for four years, and it's been epic. Over 1,500 startups from around the world have applied to our various programs.

In terms of those that we've either given prize money to, invested in, or put through our support programs, it's 99 so far. It’s kind of mind-blowing that there are that many awesome people with great ideas—people who’ve got runs on the board but haven’t smashed it out of the park yet. They need a lot of support, a lot of exposure, and funding.

The thing I love about it most is that I’ve gone from being a traditional environmental campaigner and activist—where I always felt like I was fighting for a better outcome, fighting for change, and constantly surrounded by that natural negativity and frustration—to being in a space where people are saying, I’m doing it. I can do it. I’m going to take down the big guy.

These founders are positive, optimistic, and so motivated. From an eco-anxiety and mental health perspective, I bloody love what I do. It’s awesome.

Brianne West:
Yeah. When you spend all your time with climate scientists, you tend to be slightly depressed, shall we say.

But absolutely—the startup world is mega optimistic. There are so many amazing solutions out there, and more are being developed by the day. I love that you’re supporting them to grow, which is kind of what we’re trying to do in another aspect of my life, right? Hopefully, we’ll work together in some way.

Who are your favorite organizations that you’ve worked with? Can you name a few, or is it a bit not allowed to have a favorite child?

Tim Silverwood:
Oh, there have been so many. It’s lovely to watch the evolution of our programs over the last four years. We’ve become more sophisticated as we’ve progressed.

One of my favorites was the winner of PitchFest in 2021—Seaforest. Sam Elson, the founder, had that classic call-to-action moment. He met Professor Tim Flannery and discovered that you could feed cattle and other ruminants, like sheep, tiny amounts of a specific type of seaweed, and it would significantly reduce their methane emissions.

Basically, you feed a cow this small amount of Asparagopsis seaweed, and it reduces its methane output by 98%. Sam was like, Okay, that’s awesome. So who is actually out there growing the seaweed and feeding it to cattle?

The answer? No one.

So he said, Alright, I’m going to stop being a fashion designer. (Admittedly, he was a sustainable fashion designer.) He completely pivoted, and now he’s absolutely killing it. He’s doing really, really good work.

Fast forward to last year’s Ocean Impact Accelerator Program cohort—one of my favorites was Hullbot. They’re a deep-tech company that’s developed what they call the world’s most sophisticated underwater drone. It’s essentially an advanced remote-operated vehicle, but they’ve harnessed its first capability to scrub the hulls of boats.

They started in Sydney Harbour, surrounded by the sailing community, and realized that people were either scraping boats manually to remove biofoul or dry-docking them to strip the hulls back and apply toxic antifouling paint. This paint is horrendous for biodiversity and a massive source of microplastic and nanoplastic pollution.

So Hullbot retrofitted their robot to clean boat hulls. The upside? No toxic antifoul paint, no manual labor, and—crucially—reduced drag. Now they’ve got multimillion-dollar contracts with ferry fleets that are ditching antifoul paint in favor of these robotic cleanings.

We’ve also worked with some incredible science-driven startups. We focus on helping researchers bring their brilliant ideas out of the lab and into the market. One that came through our program last year is AzulBio, a US-based company that’s figured out how to enhance the microbiology of corals—just like you can improve the gut microbiome in humans—to make them more resilient to ocean warming and acidification.

Brianne West:
Oh god, that’s good to hear.

Tim Silverwood:
Yeah, they’re doing incredible stuff. There are so many others—I could be here all day. We’ve got a Startups tab on our website where we list everyone who has come through our programs, and there are often pitch videos on our YouTube. You can do a deep dive and just go, Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. They’re awesome. They’re even better. It’s pretty cool.

Brianne West:
I’ll pop the website in the show notes too.

What other trends are you seeing? With each cohort, do you notice specific themes—whether it's plastic pollution, coral, biodiversity? And what do you think we’ll see in the future?

Tim Silverwood:
It’s more about the trends we’re shaping. As we’ve matured, so has the global ocean impact space.

When we started OIO in 2020, we were pretty unique—part of only a handful of organizations saying, Hey, we believe supporting innovation and startups in ocean health is going to blow up.

Fast forward to 2024, and there’s a lot more happening. But most of it is concentrated in Europe and North America. There’s not a lot happening in the Pacific, Australasia, or even Southeast Asia.

So instead of trying to compete with Norway or the US, we’re doubling down on our region—Australasia and the Pacific. We’re focusing on startups that either want to enter this marketplace, see opportunities here, or are from here.

This next Accelerator Program cohort will have a couple of Kiwi startups in it, which is super exciting. We’ve also established some key strategic relationships to ensure that the startups we support have real inroads into industries where they can find customers and build market share.

Brianne West:
Yeah, awesome.

What’s your ultimate aim for OIO?

Tim Silverwood:
From day one, we set three big objectives:

1. Support 100 startups in five years. Done. We’re at 99 now, and that’ll tick over to 106 very soon.
2. Bring $100 million in investment into the ocean health innovation space. We’re only at $1.4 million so far, and while market conditions are challenging, we’re setting up the chessboard to push that forward.
3. Make Australia and the Asia-Pacific region a leader in ocean impact innovation.

If you’re an Australian environmentalist, you’re constantly told that the backbone of the economy is digging up bad stuff, chucking it on a ship, selling it to the highest bidder, and ultimately choking the planet. That’s inexcusable.

I want to see a sustainable blue economy—one that harnesses the opportunities of the marine estate not just for resource extraction but for solving major environmental challenges.

That’s my ultimate goal. If we get there, I’ll be as content as I could ever possibly imagine—because prosperity is abundant in this space. I want to see a lot of people make a lot of money, a lot of people make a lot of impact, and I want to change the game.

Brianne West:
That was bloody brilliant. It’s counter to the argument that you can’t have an environmentalist who supports businesses making money. But that’s exactly what we want—businesses making money while doing good.

Profit is not a dirty word.

Who are your heroes? I know it’s a trite question, but I always love finding more people to emulate.

Tim Silverwood:
So many. I love people who just do stuff.

I mentioned Dave Rastovich before—he was a pro surfer who could have just lived a luxury surf life, but he decided to use his platform to talk about big issues.

Professor Tim Flannery is another—climate scientists like him, who know how bad things are but still harness hope and optimism.

Sylvia Earle, David Attenborough... there are so many.

Brianne West:
Yeah, I always panic when asked that question because there are too many amazing people doing incredible things.

Okay, I’m going to Google Dave Rastovich now.

Tim Silverwood:
You do get to hear Dave’s perspectives on that. So yeah, The Water People Podcast is where you can hear some of his wacky wisdom.

Brianne West:
Okay, right.

We’re nearing my favorite question, which is always my last question of the day. But first—what can people do to better support our oceans?

This is the action side of the podcast.

Tim Silverwood:
Yeah, the messaging I’ve always used is that we live on planet ocean, not planet earth.

I’ve got an episode coming out soon on our Ocean Impact podcast with James Bradley, who wrote a book called Deep Water. It’s all about how the ocean is everything.

One of our biggest flaws as humans is that we only focus on the land—the space we occupy and rely on. But the ocean? It’s where the vast majority of habitable space on our planet is. It’s where life came from.

I mean, we just discovered that oxygen is being produced 4,000 meters down in the ocean—on little manganese nodules, by electrocharged rocks. Come on! We know so little about the ocean.

For all we know, we could be controlled by some crazy critters living in the deep sea. We just don’t know.

Brianne West:
I really hope the megalodon is still around.

I know it’s not. I don’t really believe it is. But I wish it was.

Tim Silverwood:
Same!

Anyway, my long-winded point is—if we could just acknowledge and respect that the ocean is the center of this beautiful planet that made life possible, we could start making better decisions.

And for you listening in, that means making those decisions with the ocean in mind.

So, think about where your food comes from—especially seafood. We need better traceability and insight into how our seafood is sourced.

Of course, packaging is a huge one. Think about where your waste goes after you’ve used it—and where it came from in the first place.

So yeah, just put on your blue lenses and try to make more choices in your daily life with the ocean in mind. It’ll make a huge difference.

Brianne West:
Yeah. We often focus on individual actions, but really, it’s about a mindset shift. Because once you make that shift, you start looking at everything differently.

But sometimes, people need that first step.

Good call.

Right—before I ask my favorite (and final) question, where can people learn more about the newest cohort?

Tim Silverwood:
Best place is our website, ocean-impact.org. Or sign up for our newsletter—we’ll make the announcement there.

You can also follow us on social media.

I’m really excited to bring these new startups to light. Every year, our program evolves—we keep getting better at supporting and investing in these great ocean-focused businesses.

Brianne West:
I can’t wait to see who they are.

Okay—final question. Are you ready?

If you were supreme global overlord and had all the power to make a change—but no supernatural abilities—what would be the first thing you’d do to make the world a better place?

Tim Silverwood:
I think the High Seas Treaty and the push to protect 30% of the ocean (and the broader planet) by 2030 is a massive priority.

So much of what happens in the ocean is out of sight, out of mind.

If we could get a global agreement to pause the industrialization of the ocean—limiting things like deep-sea mining, tackling illegal and unreported fishing, and stopping the worst of the exploitation—it would give the ocean a chance to bounce back.

I’m so lucky to live on the east coast of Australia, where we see humpback whales migrating up and down the coast. That’s a perfect example of what happens when you press pause—we stopped hunting whales, and now we have this incredible recovery story.

I want us to be able to do that for other ecosystems before they’re lost.

So yeah—I’d get the 30x30 protections in place and make sure the High Seas Treaty gets through.

Brianne West:
Maybe throw in a Global Plastics Treaty while you’re at it?

Or just ban plastic outright? You’re the supreme overlord, right?

Tim Silverwood:
Ha! Yeah, but I’m also practical.

And this is the thing—some environmentalists really struggle with the idea of being a conscious capitalist. They want to move to some other model entirely.

I think you had someone on the podcast recently talking about this?

But the reality is, we live inside a framework. And a lot of people have already put years of hard work into these treaties and policies.

All they need is a few more signatures to get them across the line.

So yeah—I’d be the one grabbing world leaders’ hands, scribbling their signatures down, and then moving on to the next one.

Brianne West:
30x30 would be game-changing.

This week’s episode (which just went live) was with the CEO of WWF New Zealand, and she talked a lot about 30x30.

I find it flabbergasting that it isn’t already a thing. It has all the benefits and almost no downsides. But, of course, getting governments to agree is the issue.

New Zealand protects, what, less than 1% of its coastline? And we have the fifth largest ocean area in the world.

It’s just... God, it’s frustrating.

Tim Silverwood:
Yeah. And especially when you realize that some of the pushback from industry is completely short-sighted.

If they actually looked at the big picture, they’d see huge upsides. Sure, there’d be some short-term pain. But global fisheries are already losing money. They’re heavily subsidized by governments just to keep going—especially the ones operating in the deep ocean.

If we protected 30% of the ocean, they’d see a natural uplift in fish stocks.

I find it baffling that this is such a hard thing to comprehend.

Brianne West:
Exactly.

The world is already shifting. We know fossil fuels and destructive industries are on their way out. The question is—how do we accelerate that shift?

We need leaders who rip the Band-Aid off faster.

Tim Silverwood:
Completely agree. The only constant is change.

And honestly, it’s not about survival of the fittest—it’s about who can adapt the fastest.

Sorry, Darwin. I’m not saying you were wrong—I’m just tweaking your theory a bit.

Brianne West:
That’s awkward.

Tim Silverwood:
Yeah, well, he’s not here to critique me.

Brianne West:
True.

But we do need to adapt. And we need to do it much, much faster.

Alright—that’s the end of my questions.

Any final words? Maybe some tips on how to surf?

I’ve surfed twice, loved it.

Tim Silverwood:
Yeah—respect the ocean. You get that from your diving and everything else, right?

You can’t just snap your fingers and become a surfer. It’s a long, deep relationship with the ocean. I’m still learning. But persistence pays off.

Brianne West:
Yeah, definitely.

And younger people especially need more access to the ocean in a positive way. There are some great organizations doing that, like Young Ocean Explorers here in Aotearoa.

That kind of ocean literacy shifts the needle.

Tim Silverwood:
Absolutely. We’re not going to protect the ocean until people know and love it.

Brianne West:
Yeah. And the amount of funding that goes toward ocean conservation—compared to how important it is—is laughable.

But here we are.

Tim, thank you so much. That was an amazing insight into how to start a nonprofit or grassroots movement. Take 3 for the Sea and OIO are making a huge impact.

Next week, we’re back with another This or That, where I break down sustainable swaps and the myths around them.

See you then. Kia ora!